Nederlandse It may not display this or other websites correctly. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. themselves. The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. Under construction, so far showing video Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. magnetos available for sale or in Italiana As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. Recommendations for Lucas K2FC magneto rebuild? - Britbike forum 0000001015 00000 n load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. I do not know it all but I will try to help. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. Stored in the dry. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not old condenser to be disconnected. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. performance. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! Downloadable drawings, all for free, for If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. and overhauls. sequences illustrating the importance of I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring If not free to move, ease it. From the basic to the complex - some With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the 0000007301 00000 n The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. Don't flame, hate, spam. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. And a f-ing video! Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. to suit the needs of a customer. pages on how to do that. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. Thanks. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. Check out our magneto armature winding service. It should fit properly in only one precise position. Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. Our It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. IMPORTANT. English The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. Lucas KF2 magneto failure - Britbike forum Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Pick-up brushes of the highest However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Ignition magneto - Wikipedia troubleshooting your magneto. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. Please phone or email for details. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. We are unfortunately not able to offer In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. <]>> Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). 0000005952 00000 n 0000003086 00000 n Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. From time to time we have complete A Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). books, learndpapers and patents on The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes 85 0 obj<>stream If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. startxref A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. 0000001184 00000 n 0000005012 00000 n If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Translations provided by the Google Translations provided by the Google Translate service. yourselves. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. . is it rebuilt? Wico-XH Magneto Won't Spark | Smokstak Antique Engine Community Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. Thanks again. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. Magnetometer for measuring magnetic flux density at the centre of the armature cavity Measurement before remagnetisation Remagnetiser . If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. Espaol information as we can about the electrical equipment If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. 0000002409 00000 n or Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. degrade with age. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. We also provide The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. You are using an out of date browser. Great write up, with video even! Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 We can adapt for most applications. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. Magneto services On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. Check the state of the points surfaces. Some original units are still in service today. Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. 0000006372 00000 n The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. books. MochetVelo The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. However, dont make them lop-sided. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers Italiana anglais, votre convenance. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. You must log in or register to reply here. If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. how they work; and to collate as much other That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. Reassemble and check operation. Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. 82 23 How to 'Kill' a Lucas KVF Magneto? - Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forum If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. Joined: Oct 2009. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. xref I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. 0000005468 00000 n The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH Any suggestions? With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. Many should appreciate. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. have a small choice of reconditioned I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. commonly found on classic motorcycles. Magneto: No Spark - Antique Automobile Club of America Dansk If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. quality are also available, of the correct If higher than that, investigate. Checked it over and found no spark. English detailed guide to maintaining and It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. Fantastic! The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos?
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