I teach fraud for a living, you see, developed my universitys curriculum on it and am at this very moment in negotiation with a publisher to develop a textbook on it. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. Are you saying that letter posted was well written? @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. MyPayPal is captain_cassidy@yahoo.com(thats an underscore in there) for one-time tips. And influence a few. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. As well, they also dont tend to lay a lot of demands on their members, nor to preach in alienating ways. Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. I have to think, absolutely have to think, that a courageous leader sure wouldve done things differently in the last month, whether Hybels is totally clean and all of these women leaders in the church and old friends of Bill are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Bill Hybels, the righteous man, or if Hybels is dirty and all along was an abusive sociopath and terminal liar. A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. Find the origins, meaning of the Ortberg name, photos, and more. [19] For you cross land and sea to make a single convert, only to turn him into twice the Child of Hell as yourselves! Hybels is a man and he serves at the pleasure of the real King. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. John Ortberg, the senior pastor of Menlo Church, is stepping down from his role at the . I know, Ive been there. Ive been silently wondering the same. He told me he had taken Ambien. Nene Leakes Bio, Age, Family, Husband, Height, Net Worth, Twitter, Francis Chan Bio, Age, Wife, Family, Books, Church, Net Worth. You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. Please do me a favor Only quote smaller sections of a comment. I am going to ask a hard question. Sigh. This is VERY common. You are so right. Jun 27, 1945 - Jul 3, 2010 . I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. I am going to say something that will probably cause an uproar. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLT3Cb96-Mk. But it is the structure, really. Once someone gains power in a broken system, then, they enter an elite subgroup within that system. Video screengrab via Menlo Church. He did not notify the churchs elder board. At that point, Lavery chose to keep the reasons for the break confidential. However, there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go with the flow and do not rock the boat, by questioning things. Oh yeah. What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. Im not saying any of that is right. And ironically, asking that question is why. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. Publishers are pulling back for a reason. However, I am not going to let every Tom, Dick and Joe Salitas to copy and paste the letter into this comment section. Please stop reporting about Jodis letter. I had entered that phone call thinking surely we will be wanting the same thing, which is for Johnny to get treatment and to not be alone with children, Lavery told RNS. Either way, and knowing or assuming all this to be accurate, why would any man have his hands on women in ways that are open to suspicion if they are trying to stay out of trouble, either real or unjustly so accused? (Keep in mind I was having a hard time mapping that organizational understanding of leadership to servant of the Body of Christ in those days), You dont remember Bill grooming you? The Church is built on Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit, not on them. For most organizations, hard questions and analytical thinking is NOT desirable, as it will almost always challenges the official orthodoxy and might even unmask hidden agendas. Oh, absolutely. How is that not normal? 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. Ambien made me do it (Bill Hybels) One more narcissistic, egotistical, Out of control, self-serving man in a position of trust has been stopped in his tracts. This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. Love always takes time, and time is the one thing hurried people dont have. I cannot imagine the pressure that your sister is experiencing. Wow!!! HE GOT AWAY WITH IT, SO CAN I! And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.. He underwent a brief restoration process. We still do not know what that really means. They are not valid reasons. Wayyyy back in the day, he and his wife Nancy served as teaching pastors at Willow Creek Community Church. I dont know why he does these things. The Elders reviewed none for content. Thats the thing; note the commonality of the golden parachute disembarking in these cases. Strange things are happening on Twitter on this case. Share. I hope so. I am an infrequent commenter here, but have been following the WW for years. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. Will the clay say to the potter, What are you doing? Or the thing you are making say, He has no hands ? Isaiah 45:9. He does not know if there was any misconduct at Menlo Church. I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. Wow!!! Hi and welcome back! Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. So much emphasis on good works at home & abroad, what about treating your brothers & sisters in leadership with respect that comes from a relationship w/ Christ. Read Paul on Mars hill. Very true, and far too common: Jerry Sandusky, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Dr. Larry Nassar, Bill Hybels. The Gospels that I read portray a Jesus that constainly questioned the established and told parables about what is moral that makes you walk away and think. 2) Its the cost of doing business as a very large or successful church People Photos Purpose. And many that I know and love have yet to escape. Good night! From what I understand Hybels had a history of handpicking Bible versus to pummel anyone who disagreed with him concerning church doctrine, etc Not surprising. There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. 10 Things You Didn't Know about Danny Lavery - TVOvermind Photo by Sammy Dallal. Swimming in a mile-wide creek, one-inch deep. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. Head of Menlo Church steps down over 'poor judgment' Where is the scribe? Rags to Riches to Rags in three generations. I have seen it done for over 40 years now. There are too many similarities between their stories. So when Menlo whined in 2014 about how social-justice-y and non-hardcore PC(USA) had gotten, chances are really good they were actually upset about this change. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. Trying to encourage and create the best in everyone.. Why? Johnny Ortberg declined repeated requests for comment. Barton co-authored with John Ortberg Ordinary Day With Jesus, which clearly instructs readers in mystical prayer practices. This writing clearly shows John Ortbergs sympathies to this New Age spirituality. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Do it on your personal, not work, email. This is RUSSIAN Bureaucratic tradition, centered on Plausible Deniability: Then more examples came out. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. Not a wise thing to do. That is a mistake. One of John Ortbergs sons, Daniel Lavery, found out what had happened when his little brother (John Ortberg III, or Johnny) came to visit him. A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. Yet, recent expanded personal testimony and wider media discovery has presented material that strongly suggests an Willow Creek senior pastoral history of improper judgement in relation to proper scriptural leading or proper inner-workings of a church representing the teachings of Jesus Christ. This does not quite add up. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Hybels is a BS artist and a skilled speaker but also friends with very unrighteous people. If nothing else, it is incredibly prideful of a person. Did we demand transparency? Ephesians 4:2. Do you believe it is someone posing as her, or do you think she is in on it? We know about this link. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. Learn to value yourself. @ Lea: It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. (Screengrab) Now, just 18 months after his resignation, Ortberg is giving church leaders lessons in "Craft and Character" as part of a leadership program offered by The Ascent, a Christian consulting group.. Last week, Nancy Beachformer programming director at Willow Creek Community Church and a "coach" with The Ascentposted on . And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. Most of these people have no clue they are in a thought reform situation until they get very far away from it. And once thats done, the only way to survive is to seize the throne Myself. Not one. He proceeded to the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. The Rev. ( See endnote for explanation of this Christianese.) I understand the victim mentality, I have been a victim, but his repentance has little to do with the womens healing. Then his son blew the whistle", "John Ortberg Hoping to Regain Trust After 'poor judgment' at Menlo Church", "John Ortberg's Church Says 'No Evidence of Misconduct' As More Details Emerge", "Investigation Finds No Evidence of Abuse by Former Menlo Volunteer", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Ortberg&oldid=1130397124, 20th-century American non-fiction writers, 21st-century American non-fiction writers, Wikipedia articles needing factual verification from August 2022, Articles with failed verification from August 2022, Articles with dead external links from February 2022, Articles with dead external links from July 2021, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from November 2022, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 30 December 2022, at 00:10. After his brother left, Lavery spoke to his wife and to Nicole Cliffe, a close family friend. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/, Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. Bills own admission appears to have been made at a meeting with certain Elders and Willow Creek Association Board members. That should be shut down with extreme prejudicepun definitely intended. Thank you for sharing your analysis of this! !) called Give Me That Christian Side Hug went near-viral. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. Yes, I am. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. The problem is when the church becomes just like the world, when its a big organization with huge budgets and building programs and long-term goals and plans and a big stage with spotlights and a pastor whos a celebrity and whom very few people know, save for the 45 minute public show/motivational speech every week (or far less than every week, if youre Robert The Hairdoo Morris), people have an average drive of 30 miles to the sanctuary and what has been created is so artificial that the church leaders must create these artificial means to patch some fake community thing together so the whole works remains a going concern, what with the bills to pay and all those families dependent on those salaries. @ Thersites: Learn to be alone with yourself. I say we are. There is no safety for the powerless in broken systems. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. This was not about a long hug. The church also contacted leaders at ECO, its denomination. If you want to listen to his past or recent Sermons, feel free to find all of them on your youtube channel. Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. 1 comment deleted. ..I know my sheep and they know me .. He came to die for His sheep and he knew us before we were born. I never saw a cross hanging in Willow nor heard a pastor speak out against gay marriage, women pastors or the slaughter of the Palestinians, etc . Stunned, I finally slipped my arms up between us and pushed him away. Maybe thats cuz GRACE had worked with Ortberg in investigating Bill Hybels! What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? Read the books and follow the formula. Status? And his comment is A church? I dont think he deserved that. [4] On August 13, 2012, Ortberg's book Who Is This Man? Does anybody know how much hugging it takes to facilitate which feeling, assuming that the response is does related? Shameful! Ever thought of switching to WordPress? She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. Share Memory. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. To me (and probably to a lot of jurors), timely Disappearing of Evidence = ADMISSION OF GUILT. That this has to be explained in The Church is unbelievable. Ultimately only Willow Creek congregants can decide the fate of their church sad state of affairs with millions of dollars at stake. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. No one walks away unascathed. Know who you are. It is the Spirits job to convict and change.. There is a reason that big names get away with so much. So what favor did he do you (that you did not tell me about) that made him think that you owed him? Then I started questioning that after quite a few! John Ortberg seeking help. Maybe they could get Lee Strobel back to write another book The Case for Bill. Leaders who are ambassadors for Christ can cause crises of faith when they break the 3rd Commandment Thou shall not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. This makes my blood boil. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. Leaders who walk in the dark are not representing Jesus but rather the same Devil the original Pharisees did. Nothing more. No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! Your boss? Thats a laugh. In the process, one creates division, hatred and war, both within and without the so-called Church. Weird, eh? The lawyer they hired had no experience whatsoever in dealing with church-based abuse, and remarkably he did not ever actually speak to any of the children or parents at the church, only with ministry staff and workers. Only the Lord knows, way above my paygrade to say with any certainty, but observing fruits and the lack thereof is not above my paygrade. They received no other information, said Michael Tao, who was team captain for two years. It is as if they are trying to saysee! The sheer resources at these (mostly) mens disposal. Timing is interesting. If you cant trust your pastor who can you trust? Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? Is this a ruse to further that idea? Have you ever watched the news when the police pick up some guy who is a pedophile and all the neighbors say But he was so nice.