It doesnt cost that much more to purchase legitimate past year models. that would be true in large part. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. Had to get a hybrid custom built cos the Affinity hybrids swing weight was indifferent to the irons. Great story Hireko stuff is reasonable, and priced quite well. Most of us who choose to play clones most likely at some point played name brand clubs. Two of our testers hit the Heated first, while the 3rd hit the Burner first. The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components for companies like Golfsmith and Hireko and clones for companies like Diamondtour. in my opinion would have been more accurate. Custom Golf Clubs - Hireko Golf So not stolen lol. Sent from my SM-N960U using MyGolfSpy mobile app. Ultimately the point in all of this is that of all Sports activities, Golf is a gentlemans game, it is honor, and it is self-policing. No matter what your skill level, you want to play better golf. Other factors, the subjective stufflooks, sound, feel, etc. The point of his article, as with any good marketing person, the tolerances of his product offerings were much tighter than the competition. After all, there is no way on this green earth that a clone with an assembled price of less than $100 ($59 head only) could outperform a club from a popular golf company with an initial price tag of $300 right? Pab, if you have read the posts above you should come away confused (as I am) as to whether non OEM brands might be best. Tom Wishon, he himself a club designer who has his stuff made in the Far East, backs up MGSs facts. Why? 2nd Swing offers the largest selection of used golf clubs both online and in our stores, including every brand and model imaginable. Clone equipment is within the patent and trademark limits and for the reputable companies selling clones is 100% legal. And some use the exact same molds. (Major as in U.S. Open, Masters, British Open P.G.A. Test Taylormade drivers against a couple of the top tier non-OEM companies like Bang and Ill be interested in the results. But the same thing has already happened in electronics, computers and even automobiles. As a mechanic, Ive been building my own clubs for the past 26 years, and yes I have quite an inventory. Although I have made several sets of look alikes mostly from Hireko I have found the Irons are great and although they should always be checked for loft and lie after assembly that using a good shaft the work just great. As far as I know Wishon Golf, Golfworks, Alpha Golf, Geek Golf, Krank Golf and KZG were never makers or sellers of clone heads. Typically a driver head weighs around 195-200g, a 3 wood head is about 210g, and a 5 wood is around 220g, but the single length driver and fairway woods are all 220g. Ive used their 302 model iron for years now and just recently compared their performance against several of the leading irons on the market. No one knows what they are. SW: Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x;Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft My son is custom club maker and said that his best selling iron head. As for the clone argument, are those on the side of the big manufacturers going to stay on their side if we take this argument to off brand manufacturers who design and make some very good clubs but dont have the budget to promote like the giants? So, I could care less about design copy as I am the quality that goes into a club. Light and low torque. Id love to see MGS compare irons. I bought a pickup truck bed worth of components from the estate of a mom/pop club builder. He built mostly dynacraft stuff, so I got a lot of odd c Pinhawks are a separate entity, and they are pretty good. I have used this club as my driver.It has a 13 degree face, It have spent way over $1,000 on drivers and never satisfied. You can post now and register later. Unless its Oscar Peterson. Single The real enemy here is the counterfiet club not the knock-off, in an age where we are all trying to bring more people to this wonderfully aggrevating game I think that the knock-offs help fill a price point and allow more people to afford to play the game. The right shaft for the player is far more important IMO. Purchasing used golf clubs is a great way to ensure you have quality equipment in your golf bag at the right price. For the name-brand model we tested a TaylorMade Tour Burner 2010. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations. I do proudly carry 3 PW Maltby MMBs (forged blades) with Project X shafts, custom fit to my length. So I just bought a real Titleist driver. Nearly all Club heads come from China. Should be fun as long as my wife does not find out I more clubs on the way. I have purchased components from Golfsmith, Golfworks, Hireko and Diamond Tour Golf to name a few. Restore formatting, Reshafting These services usually take 5 to 7 days, as we have to order the shafts. Ill use Infiniti as an example. Its the swing that matters not your clubs! Women's MyGolfSpy (WMGS) General Discussion Forum, Lessons, Drills, Fitness and Training Aids, Suggestion Box - Reach out to the Forum Staff (Open for All Member Responses). As mentioned above, I believe you should research more on this topic before writing an entire article denouncing the use of clone products. It also amazes me that anyone can play summer league baseball with a beat up mitt and an older bat, or a game of school yard basketball with an old ball and still have a lot of fun, but with golf people are made to feel they have to keep up with not just technology, but the Joness as well. Im glad the rental only cost me $15.00 any more and I would have been upset at myself renting them. Happy now. TaylorMade Stealth DHY Custom Utility Iron. If we simply look at the raw averages we see that the Clone was actually more accurate! Many clone companies and component companies offer product close in quality and performance compared to name brand equipment. A good golf club is a good golf club, no matter what name is stamped on it. It looks like a mirac Its in the hole! Obviously this test doesnt begin to cover all of the combinations. I haven't tried anything of theirs yet, but now I am willing to. Not sure about Pinhawk, think they are their own entity. Regarding Acer, most likely but don't know for sure. I have contacted Hireko customer serv Copyright 2023. Of course, its completely fine for you to voice your opinion, but you should not be critizing others product decisions. Well.i found the clone world years ago,.and love em. Even the raw materials received were sometimes out of tolerance. QUALITY!! But there really is no best answer its all subjective. I have been researching single length clubs again and I may just have to order a few Pinhawks to build/test. Just a quick note to say i recently decided to take up golf. As far as woods go, I stick with the name brands because there is a lot more to a wood than just to look like the other. Giga provides a great club for the average golfer at an affordable price. Loft and lie adjustment involves the use of specially-designed equipment and a great deal of experience. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, (your email address will not be published), Costco Kirkland Performance + Golf Ball (Version 3), Costco Kirkland Signature Wedges Version 2, http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-bags.html, http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-clubs/accessories/. Summing up what I said, clones made me a lot of money but I couldnt sell them now due to pretty much zero qc on the part of the importers. But I think it would surprise most to know that only by 5.8 yards (2.2%). Can clone golf clubs perform as well as the higher priced name brand golf clubs?. nice way to put down your own company. If I understand the anti clone side I should pay $200 for a TM fairway wood with a slot design stolen from Adams, with a Carpenter steel face, developed by Golfsmith many years ago, using a de-contented Graffalloy or other major company shaft, painted exactly like the real component, because golf is a game of integrity! WebThis Meant grips, shaft, length and even tweaking the head itself. Then to follow it up with the only diff is that the Major OEMs have more money to B.S. Which they are doing, but it is costly. There are better clone models of this driver, although we decided to go with a mid-tier model. I worked in manufacturing for over 50 years and watched all kinds of products being manufactured from high quality aircraft bolts to electronic equipment to toys. I have contacted Hireko customer service in the past and they were very nice/knowledgeable. My point is: high handicappers dont hit the ball well enough, or consistently enough, to notice a difference in performance. My DTG S2 Pros were both on spec. They swing quite heavy compared to most but I got used to them. I buy most of my club making supplies through GolfWorks but I will occasionally purchase golf shafts/grips from Hireko as they have really good closeout sales at times. A counterfeit is a club design that purposely attempts to deceive you into believing it is the real thing. Those involved in this great game should have a certain level of ethics. After school he would make cold calls for his father, Ren-Jei (R.J.) Liou, asking pro shops and discount stores if they wanted to order from his line of clubs. Just ask yourself, have you ever had someone take credit for your hard work? I must take exception to the consideration being given Clones. Upload or insert images from URL. But even this line is blurring with some of the reputable clone and component companies out there in recent years. The long irons are 5i length and the mid and short irons are 8i length. They are good components and last as long as other components, I have bought. Once the epoxy dried, shafts were cut to a relatively modest 44.75 inches. Iwant to know why you didnt do the same for irons? A test such as yours would better be done on mechanical equipment such as the ball manucturers use. I would like to see the stock shafts for each club tested. Our team of expert fitters fits more than 500 delighted customers a year!Our staff of skilled club fitters is passionate about providing the highest level of customer service. Because MyGolfSpy Labs doesnt put a score on things, rather than have our testers fill out our surveys, we simply had a discussion about the subjective aspects of our two drivers. Display as a link instead, A counterfeiter tries to alter a companys protected features just enough to avoid prosecution. then youll really be happy, and love your set..and it will be right. Too bad the comparison wasnt between those brands and TaylorMade rather than a head that was a copy of TaylorMade. Hireko has existed since 1981 per something I've seen online. Length adjustments usually take 48 hours to complete. This allows the golfer to use the same swing, on the same plane, with the same feel, for each iron in the set. I have also seen some really good clubs, despite being complete knockoffs. As far as irons are concerned, as long as the material used is of a certain quality Ive come to the conclusion that stamped metal is stamped metal. If you choose to purchase new golf clubs from us, your clubs will be custom-built to your specifications at prices comparable to major online retailers. The connections between CLones and Counterfeits have been made. Launch Angle and Apex For the most part, the Burner and the Clone produced similar launch characteristics. A clone of an FT-i is made so that beginning golfers think that they are getting the same design characteristics as the original at a budget price. As a group, ball speeds averaged a full 3.5 MPH faster with the name brand Burner. Read further and you will find that the same factories involved are also producing Clone Clubs. I suppose it may have been clever to put that in my first post. There is so many aspects to playing this game, and so many different things that can effect how we play. You invest your time and should invest equally in your equipment. Director) believes that most stock shafts are good enough for the average golfer. I ran a small clubmaking andrepair business in the late 80's and early 90's and bought from Golfworks, Golfsmith, and Dynacraft. I'm looking at the Acer XV Pro heads because they have progressive bounce which I have come to really like. While not all their designs are clones, they do carry a large majority of clone heads (which is understandable as they started as a clone company). Don't know if one is better than the other, both are good . These companies and others (Alpha, GeekGolf, KZG, etc) have very high quality, custom designed components that are just as good and in many cases better than the name brand manufactures. Okay, you somewhat mixed it up. So thinking that only clones and counterfeits are made there is just preposterous. Maybe the new Golfworks KE4 can play like the originals but for cost these keep me in the 80 range on the scorecard. I have seen some things that would shock you about the quality of some of the BIG name brand models. Head is just going along for the ride. These shafts do perform differently from one another. Although new legislation is going to clarify this further. This topic has been pretty taboo and heated for many reasons. Are shafts or heads manufactured to a large (+-) tolerance with the (-) tolerance being the norm or are the parts manufactured to close tolerances? They have a 6 iron length. It just isnt very admirable. I agree with most of that. Wherever corners could be cut in the manufacturing process they were. WebThe suggested mens length for the Pinhawk Vertex is 38" (for the 3, 4 and 5 irons) and 36.5", which are a typical 5 and 8 iron lengths respectively. The grib and weight had to translate into a mental file. One of the two is a multiple major tournament winner. What I will say is that I glued together a few of their sets for buddies and lofts, lies and head weights are not spot on. So if the name-brand companies are fine with it, why would anyone, that decides to save money on purchasing similar product, be doing the wrong thing? WebHirekos stable of recognized clubmaking brands include Acer and Juggernaut in clubheads, to SK Fiber golf shafts, to Karma golf grips. Sadly, thats ignorance on the consumers part. I think I am going to get some components and try building an over length set. Your link has been automatically embedded. So, in the end, I would never buy a clone wood, but have no problem playing clone irons and my preference for those has become GigaGolf as Ive found their quality quite good. But both models tested were 460cc titanium drivers. How about paint quality? How is the overall health of golf these days? Visit the Cobra Golf Store. Thats one of the most credible sources on golf equipment and the up-and-comer in the golf media (with THREE other sources) that shoots down your claim. You can also get many/most of their components from Value Golf (I'm not affiliated, other than as a customer). Wishon Golf, GolfWorks, and Golfsmith are good quality with their own designs. between OEMs (i.e., TM, Callaway, Mizuno, etc.) While there may have been a foundry that produced both OEM and Clone, it isnt a general rule, as OEMs have strict contracts with the foundries they use, that prevents the practice. Thanks for the help. Its your money to spend where you chose I just found better places to spend it. Other than that they work. Lasers are used to copy the exterior of high selling clubs; again, there is no internal accuracy, nor the same construction, material or quality. I think that you are just talking B.S. ive built mell clubs for 12 yrs.i made a mellow yellow driver,9.5 degrees, with a proforce stiff shaft.took it to course and was smashing it.a scratch golfer ask to hit it.he drove on an average,15 yards pass his ping driver.but would he let me make him one or buy mine?no way.ive made lots of clone clubs,but never made another like the bang mellow yellow.aas amatter of fact,i just received a new 10.5 degree mellow yellow head. The important thing to me is the name brands hold there value and sell quickly used where you dont get hardly any interest advertising used clones and almost have to give them away to get them out of the garage. Branded products are made with higher quality control, but mistakes still happen even with tighter controls, just not nearly as often. Yes this is very good for golfers like me with slower swing speed. My point? Also, your purchase will include LIFETIME LIE ANGLE ADJUSTMENTS. We carry a full line of product offerings, from best value starter and junior I did not hear of Pinhawk until the single length club movement gain in popularity (last ~10 years or so). Very generally speaking, the slower the swing speed, the more spin (and higher launch) becomesdesirable. And all golfers know it isnt them, it is the clubs. You can do lab tests forever, but if a club does not feel right for your swing, it doesnt matter how it did in tests. The only one that was weird was the DTG Turner True Speed Ablaze its tolerance was 3g (standard for all drivers), but it weighed in 3.7g over. Incidentally, what we believe to be generally true is that its not just clones, but also respected component brands where the single biggestdifferentiationbetween their product and that of the big OEMs isnt performance, but rather polish. For the clone model we tested a Heated H, which wed classify as a mid-teir clone of TaylorMades once popular driver. Understanding what has happened and continues to happen in this industry is a thread common to all of those who contract for manufacturing in the Far East. Quality is really poor. From what I understand, Bang Golf doesnt make clones nor knock-offs. Her irons are Acer HT, likes them also. Obviously, many big brand clubs are really good and almost always lead the trends in golf technology (maybe not originally came up with all of the ideas). All those statements do is hurt the component biz. This doesnt count the shafts, grips and balls Ive gone through. Reshafing- We can reshaft most golf clubs with just about all major brands in graphite and steel shafts. However: the result you provided does tell us that one club seems not twenty-five percent better to justify the cost difference, but as with a new suit, cost is a factor to most people some believing the lower cost buys the good-enough quality and some believe they deserve the best, and humans equate best with price. T. he loft gapping is slightly larger than traditional irons; this is to maintain a proper distance gap between clubs. Shop products from small business brands sold in Amazons store. Amazingly all that expensive hardware wont fix a bad set up and an outside in swing path. Fact is players with lousy swings are still carding in the 110+ neighborhood if theyre scoring honestly. Golf Club Repair & Regripping Services at Golf Galaxy Testers Wanted: Maxfli Tour Series Golf Balls! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I have been hitting a clone set of irons since 2008. So bottom line dont leave this subject here Golf Spy please do a test of clone irons! By being all the same length, lie, balance and weight as a 7-iron, there is no need to change your posture, stance or ball position so you only have one thought process for every swing with your irons and wedges. Pinemeadows offers a lower end shaft as their standard, but you can upgrade too. I know Maltby designs their clubs but does Hireko design theirs? Web1 Acer SR1 Fairway Woods $94.99 Acer XV Irons $44.99 Rating: 3 Acer XV Pro Irons $44.99 Rating: 1 Acer SR1 Hybrids $79.99 Acer XDS Fairway Woods $94.99 Rating: 6 Acer XDS Extreme Draw Fairway Woods $94.99 Acer XDS Extreme Draw Titanium Driver $159.99 Rating: 1 Acer XV Ultimate Thriver $169.99 Rating: 9 Acer XV Thriver Mini These perform great. Who is going to take those remarks seriously? And while I might argue that over the last couple of years theyve taken a small step backwards in those areas, they remain largely ahead of the curve. There are just too many cases backing up the problems. I like them a lot, price was great, looks are great and pleased with the performance. Counterfeit Clubs and Clones are more often manufactured in the same factories in China. Also illegal is a club that is very close to a direct copy and is termed either confusingly similar (if it infringes on company trademarks) or substantially similar (if it infringes on design patents). Not the muscle blade. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Shafts can make a huge difference, and fitting an expensive aftermarket shaft in a $50 clone driver seems well, counter-intuitive. I bought a pickup truck bed worth of components from the estate of a mom/pop club builder. OK, dianond tours own shaft in smoke is just gorgous,and cheap,(deep smoke,or gold) DTs heads, and winn grips. http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-bags.html, http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-clubs/accessories/ I made my biggest improvements this year when I broke down and took a couple lessons from Derek Radley of Mobilegolflesson.com. Below is a lengthy paper that I previously wrote on the subject. Single A boyish 25-year-old Californian, he has been selling golf clubs since he was 15. If thats your game, then its hard not to argue with the 7.11 yards of additional carry (or 6.03 yards of total distance) that our testers showed with the Burner. I didnt get an extra 10 yards and I wasnt dramatically more accurate. SEARCH ALL Used GOLF CLUBS FROM ALL BRANDS. Some features of a driver, its head size, for instance, cannot be protected, but others can. Golf Clubs | Hireko Golf He is a Callaway Master Fitter and serves on the National Board of Callaway Fitters. Component Golf Clubs: Such as, INFINITI, SMT, NAKASHIMA, and KZG, are original designs and are legitimate and ARE NOT part of any reference. Some of you that shout the accolades of name brand clubs and tell everyone else the pitfalls of playing clones you probably never hit a quality clone before. The cost of 4 through PW with customization, tax and shipping came to less than $400 and they were at my door There may very well have been rogue foundries that produced Clones while also producing OEMs. I would actually like to see more tests done on off brand stuff, like the KZGs or Warrior custom golf (you know who you are, I played them to). Sorry bub. Up closeummmnot so much. There are different levels of counterfeiting, says Debra Peterson, a U.S. customs official who was involved in Project Teed Off. The name brand guyslaugh as they gaze at the clones with icy cold contempt. The foundation of our methodology is that both fitter and customer must have the opportunity to observe actual ball flight. Does seem disheartening that GolfSmith and GolfWorks would be lumped into second tier. Tom Wishon has a lot of golf club patents from when he was the designer for Golfsmith and since he started his own company years ago. WebGOLFDOM is THE Golfer's Store, complete with everything our customers need for on AND off the course. With respect to backspin the numbers are incredibly close. I bought it and it was perfect. Callaway threatened to sue Kent Graphtec over its Big Bursar driver, alleging patent, trademark and trade dress (trademark-design) infringement. It's a combination driver and fairwaywood. Oh and I like their hybrid and fairway wood models. 1. I had a few years where I didnt play, but now that I am single digits HC I am going to spend the money for NameBrand clubs. Four years later, in March 2001, the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles ruled that R.J. Liou, Kent Graphtec and Trophy Sports, a separate company started by Jethro and his mother, Yeh-Chyn, in late 2000, had breached the settlement by continuing to sell Big Bursars. I think there is some difference there and wasnt too happy with a couple of clone drivers Ive purchased in the past which couldnt match the performance of a 10+ year old Orlimar driver. Go to eBay, or Diamond Tour. Just because something in a Chinese factory was allowed to happen, does not make it right. I will say thisoften times the quality of things like welds, finishes and materials are not as good as the name brand model. Square headed drivers made from wood in the 1800s. Ninety percent of amateur golfers play with the wrong equipment. The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components and clones for companies like. Not driven only by what is legal, but what is right. Guest Delete While the Burner produces a pleasant ting and outstanding feel at impact, the Heated was often described as clunky, almost heavy at impact. Im fitted properly to my clones which is half the battle. Web275g head weight with hosel weight bore allows assembly to any single length between 35.5 and 37.5 while still being able to achieve a reasonable range of swingweight/MOI But not the component club heads. You may wonder what the difference is between the counterfeit vs. clone. While all the content of what you said may be correct there is more to clone/knockoff/etc. GOLF MANUFACTURERS ANTI-COUNTERFEITING WORKING GROUP. Golfsmith were, er, well Golfsmith and we'll leave it at that. all are factors in our normal tee shots. Ball Speed As you might expect, higher clubhead speed produces higher ball speed. Some golfers place an absolute premium on distance. Take a look back at some of the old clubs and you will see theres nothing new. Years ago Maltby (Golfworks founder) did a quality study on the tolerances of his clubs versus clones, dont recall if he sampled OEMs as well. Secondly, please read Roy Nixs article from the AGCP Whos cloning who. Sound and Feel TaylorMade has a reputation for producing great feeling, great sounding drivers. Now Im down to 6.3, been playing clone irons the whole time and usually Orkut drivers but not always and often times I play an 8 year old Taylor made r510 tp. Cant find a reference when I Google it. Inside was a TaylorMade wedge. While I remember the ACER brand back in the mid 90's, I think Hireko started early 2000's (could be off here). How many of them are the clubs the least of their problems? Love them. An excerpt from Pssst . You decide what you want. Well today youre going to find out once and for all. SWIFT) In my experience, an average length hitter who hits very accurately will beat a long hitter with low accuracy, almost every time out.